The Heretik thinks this bites.
We keep hearing these right-wing torture apologists telling us how torture “worked and saved American lives”.
Just the opposite is true. It resulted in the senseless deaths of thousands of Americans.
We have known (thanks toÂ reports from former Deputy Sec of State, Larry Wilkerson) for some time that key claims made by the administration about contacts between Saddam and Al Qaeda were the result of the torture of one Ibn Sheikh Al Libby, who wasÂ ”rendered” to Syria and tortured during interrogation.Â Eventually, they put him in a coffin-like “confinement box” for an extended period of time and then beat him senseless when he was eventually taken out.Â
Suddenly, he answered “Yes” to the repeated questions about the supposed contacts.Â
That information was a key argument put forth by the administration during Colin Powell’s now infamous UN speech.
Just so you know I am not pulling that info out of my posterior, here is Wilkerson in his own somewhat sanitized words:
Lately, I’m growing increasingly concerned because two things have just happened here that really make me wonder.
And the one is the questioning of Sheikh al-Libby where his confessions were obtained through interrogation techniques other than those authorised by Geneva.
It led Colin Powell to say at the UN on 5 February 2003 that there were some pretty substantive contacts between al-Qaeda and Baghdad. And we now know that al-Libby’s forced confession has been recanted and we know – we’re pretty sure that it was invalid.
But more important than that, we know that there was a defence intelligence agency dissent on that testimony even before Colin Powell made his presentation. We never heard about that.
Follow that up with Curveball, and the fact that the Germans now say they told our CIA well before Colin Powell gave his presentation that Curveball – the source to the biological mobile laboratories – was lying and was not a trustworthy source. And then you begin to speculate, you begin to wonder was this intelligence spun; was it politicised; was it cherry-picked; did in fact the American people get fooled – I am beginning to have my concerns.
Got that?Â Tortured false confessions led us into a brutal and illegal war in Iraq.Â
So, rather than saving American lives, it is clear that it has actually cost us thouands of American lives (and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis theirs).
False confessions tortured out of people have resulted in moreÂ U.S. deaths than 9-11!Â
Wilkerson has recently given several recent interviews where he says that as part of his State Department job, he became aware of roughly 200 detainees that have died in our hands.Â That number grew steadily over time as he tracked it.Â His early testimony before Congress started with about 100.Â
You do not hearÂ peopleÂ talking about the folks we killed in custody. But, you watch, that will come out in more detail as this is investigated by the media and hopefully a FederalÂ prosecutor.Â
We were not only inflicting “severe physical and mental pain” on our detainees. We were literally torturing folks to DEATH.
Folks like this guy (in pics taken so they could be used to threaten other detainees with a similar fate):
And that my friends is why the sick freaks that planned, authorized AND carried out this torture programÂ must be prosecuted.Â Every last one of them.Â Just as the Geneva Conventions REQUIRES.
Do it to prevent this from ever happening again. Do it to get justice for our victims. Do it for the senseless victims (on both sides) of a war we launched based on tortured confessions.
Do it because AMERICA IS A COUNTRY OF LAWS.
Now, this may actually be the “Worst person in the world”.Â
Thought I’d recirculate this post from “Domionists for Tancredo 2012″.Â
Give it a good read.Â It BLEW my mind.Â
Is there any word for views like this other than “sick”?Â Maybe “Christofascism”?
ApparentlyÂ this freak Rev. HippleÂ forgets that:
Just when I think I could not be more disgusted:
By Hipple, Rev. Paul T.
It is hard to resist sarcasm.Â With our USÂ government now transitioning from one based upon Christian Principles to one based on the Quran, it seems to have become fashionable lately to rename â€˜enhanced interrogation techniquesâ€™ as torture.
We must accept the fact that what is sure to follow this revision of terms is Persecution of the good Christians working for the Bush administration, because nobody who has been accused of practicing enhanced interrogation techniques will ever be convicted of war crimes.
Fine, letâ€™s call it torture and letâ€™s accept that Christians, like Jesus Christ before them, will be unjustly brought to trial and face death for their acts of torture.Â When this happens, let us Prayerfully give thanks, taking solace in how it reminds us that persecution is precisely what defines Christians as a great Religious Movement.
Even so, the elect can take further solace in knowing the convicted are saved and at Peace with God.Â If the US detention facility official who is conducting torture doesÂ not enjoy torturing the terrorist prisoner, it is completely illogical to think that he is engaged in anything other than the routine extraction of intelligence information from heartless, bloodthirsty murderers.
The fact of the matter is,Â we are compelled by our Christian Faith to perform whatever uncomfortable acts are necessary to prevent islamojihadists from committing mass murder.Â And if Good Christians are brought to trial and persecuted simply because they sought to uncover these muslim deceptions, we must accept that as Godâ€™s Will.
And through all of this, letâ€™s not forget that torture does work.Â The liberal mainstream media would have you believe that it doesnâ€™t.Â But of course, they have that wrong, too.
For an excellent example, look no further than to the case ofÂ Sayed Imam Al-Sharif, ak Dr. Fadl.Â Â As we all know, before now, no muslim has ever repudiated the terrorist acts of al-Qaeda and for this reason, we now clearly understand that Islam is not a peace loving religion.Â However, none other than the ideological founder of Islamic Jihad,Â after being tortured as a prisoner ofÂ the Egyptian authorities for over a decade, Dr. Fadl finally broke, repudiating his islamofascist legacy:
In a prison cell south of Cairo a repentant Egyptian terrorist leader is putting the finishing touches to a remarkable recantation that undermines the Muslim theological basis for violent jihad and is set to generate furious controversy among former comrades still fighting with al-Qaida.
Of course, this common criminal doesnâ€™t believe a word of it, and would gladly go back to slaughtering Christians if given the chance.Â But that isnâ€™t the point.Â My point is this repudiation of violent islamic extremeism would not have been possible without Godâ€™s magnificant instrument of torture! Now, for the first time, we have real hope Obama bin Laden will fear what has happened to his colleague, heed the words of this torture victim, lay down his arms, and surrender peaceflly to the nearest authorities.
The next time someone trys to tell you torture is useless, tell them about how a bloodthirsty jihadist in prison called Dr. Fadl,Â somewhere around or near the Nile River,Â is suddenly singing peace and love like a purple martin sitting on a 20 foot pole.
You know me. I had to go read the original torture memos.
Note that Obama said that there would be no prosecution of individual interrogators who followed the legal memos issued by the criminals at the OLC.Â Let’s leave aside for now the facts that “following orders” does not constitute a viable defense for war crimes and the Geneva Conventions does not make prosecution of torture optional.
There is a lot of info in these memos. But, one tidbit stuck out to me when reading them:
“You have indicated that these acts will not be used with substantial repetition, so there is no possibility that severe physical pain could arise from such repetition. Accordingly we conclude that these acts neither separately nor as part of a course of conduct would inflict severe physical pain or suffering within the meaning of the statute.” – BybeeÂ Torture Memo – Page 11
It is clear that “substantial repetition” of these acts was NOT authorized by the OLC mob lawyers.Â
Yet, we know that Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times in a month and KSM 183 times in the same period of time.Â We can also pretty safely assume that other techniques were being applied between waterboardings, “a course of conduct”.
I would say that 183 times in a month most definitely constitutes “substantial repetition”.Â As such, even under the rules Obama has set up, it seems that the folks doing those interrogations would not be entitled to legal protection based on the notion that they followed the guidelines set out in the memos.Â
They clearly went WAY beyond these bogus authorizations.
Procesute these torturer scum.Â Make America great again.
p.s. Thanks to the tireless work of the ACLU, you can read the original memos here:
This is over.
America is sick of Republicans destroying this country and they are throwingÂ them out. Â Long over due IMO. Â
Neoconmen lied this country into a disastrous war that did not need to be fought while ignoring the one that did. Â They outed a covert CIA operative working on WMD to further their war lies. Â Then they lied repeatedly under oath about it. Â They have destroyed the economy with their “Reagan Republican” free market fundamentalism. Â They have caused the poor and middle classes to fall far behind while enriching those that least needed it. Â The disparity in class has not been larger since the Great Depression. Â Now, as a result of theirÂ bogus economic polices,Â we are on the verge of another. Â They watched as thousands died in NOLA and whined and complained when they were blamed for their inaction. Â They have made us a torture state and shredded the constitution. Â They have repeatedly violated International Law, Federal Law and the Uniformed Code forÂ Military Justice. Â As a result, we have never been weaker as a nation than we are right now. Â
That is just a sampling of the reasons they are being disposed of.
Now as their bony claws are being pulled away from the power they have wielded, they have become ever more dishonest, belligerent and divisive. Â Their rallies, their websites and their advertising have become outright hate-fests. Â John McCain has sold out his honor with his lies and smears while seeking the power that he will never get. Â He even hired the same dirty operatives that tanked him in 2000 with another ugly, racist smear campaign. Â He will go down as a sad and tragic victim of the lust for power. Â Power he will not get after destroying his own reputation in the quest for it.
You Republicans have utterly blown it and are being shoved into the box you crawled out of. Â Hopefully, you will stay there and the word “conservative” become as reviled as you made the word “liberal” for the past two decades. Â That is the least you deserve for the damage you have done to this country. Â
I hope you hate the next four or eight years as much as those of us that have fought your crimes for the last eight have hated watching you destroy this country that we love.
That ends NOW.Â Â
BTW – Where’s Osama?
Just thought that I’d note that I just got back from the new Woodstock concert museum in Bethel, NY.Â
It was very cool.Â McCain did not like his much talked about 1 million dollars going to the project memorializing what he called a major “cultural and pharmaceutical event”.Â I’d much prefer that million going to celebrate resistance to unneccessary and immoral wars than going to pay for aboutÂ 4 WHOLEÂ minutes of killing people in Iraq.
He can bitch about ear marks til the cows come home for all I care.Â Here’s what his bogus and illegal war are costing us:
Per Month – $10.3 billion
Per Week – $2.4 billion
Per Day – $343 million
Per Hour – $14 million
Per Minute – $238,425
Per Second – $3,973
Those numbers can be found along withÂ many interesting tidbits in the following congressional report on the cost of the war:
Bet McCain can’t be found talking about the cost of a hundred year presense in Iraq.Â
So, John, when you are ready to end this bullshit war, you let me know. That is when your whining about out of control spending will make some sense to me. Until then you are just another governmental hypocrite!Â
The Bush administration is STILL covering up its pre-war intel manipulation
The Bush administration is STILL covering up the lengths of its domestic spying
The Bush administration is STILL covering up its rendition and torture programs
The Bush administration is STILL covering up the outting of a CIA agent for political gain
The Bush administration is STILL covering up the illegal storage and apparent “loss” of 4 million White House e-mails
The Bush administration is STILL covering up its involvement in the political firing of U.S. Attorneys
The Bush administration is STILL covering up tons of shit
Impeachment of George Bush
Impeachment of Dick Cheney
Nice Neville Chamberlain analogy. But, I’ll tell you, I’d rather beÂ the appeaser thanÂ the fascist.
There is no other example which better illustrates the deplorable effects of systematic torture than the witch hunts that took place in Europe and America.
The parallels to our modern use of torture in the WOT are pretty clear.
Both were launched in times of a certain heightened public hysteria. Both essentially assume rather than establish the guilt of the victim. Both used/use violence and cuelty to extract information which is not accurate and establish false guilt. Both result in the naming of more and more falsely accused to be rounded up for torture and false accusation of others, providing an ever growing number of suspects. Both by their nature breed additional hysteria as they provide the practicioners an excuse/”need” to expand their “investigations”.
The Bush administration clearly views the Constitution as its enemy and something to be gotten around rather than something to be followed and upheld at all times.
It has repeatedly violated the Constitution, international laws, and federal laws. The courts have produced a long list of rulings stating just that.
The so called “unitary executive theory” is a clear attempt to alter the Constitutionally established balance of powers.
Their legal advisors including folks like David Addington, John Yoo and of course Alberto Gonzalez have figured out that the wheels of justice turn very slowly and that if they simply assert new and never before acknowledged powers, that they can do as they please for years at a time until the courts tell them to stop.
This precedent is terribly dangerous. It is a legalistic game that they have realized that they can exploit for their entire 8 years in office to do essentially as they please. Even when their programs and actions are shot down in court, they simply assert some other skewed legal interpretation to justify their action and no matter how flimsy or unconstituional it is on its face, they get several more years of abusing their Constituional powers before it winds through the courts again.